Extremism – Christian vs. Muslim – 3.04.2008

Recently I debated several individuals about Christian Extremism and Muslim Extremism. Their viewpoint was the all regions have extremism, and all extremism is equally bad. My point, as regular readers can probably predict, was that Islamic Extremism, past and present, far outweighs Christian Extremism in size, bloodshed, and the level of fanaticism.  My fellow debaters brought up the old specter of the Crusades and various Christian Extremist groups of our modern age. Below is my counterpoint, which essentially ended the discussion. Whether or not I convinced my opponents of the validity of my views is unknown, but I would like to indulge in the fantasy that I have.  

Everyone here seems to have gotten the idea that I believe that Christians are incapable of evil. Where have I said that? Everyone is capable of evil, but some, due to their environment and religious teaching, are more prone than others.

“Which Christians commit terrorist acts in the name of their religion and which Christians also use Biblical Scripture to justify those acts?”

My original statement (above) was perhaps a little too broad so I will tweak it. “Which Christians commit terrorist acts in the name of their religion and which Christians also can successfully base their actions on Biblical Scripture?

Anyone can proclaim that God commands them to kill the unbelievers and that the Bible says so. However, is that actually the case? While the Old Testament is a popular target, I will note that Christians do not celebrate the violence of the Old Testament, but view it as immoral and not representative of the Christian faith.

Reverend David Holwick of First Baptist Church in Ledgewood, New Jersey:

“I picked up the Bible just the other day and was reading the story of the times of Samuel. All sorts of ghastly incidents are related, and some passages are simply revolting to a mind accustomed to feel towards humanity as Christ felt. And the thing is that God is pictured as directing and helping it all. It is God who leads in the slaughter and He even inspires His children to the most unmerciful acts. Do not teach these parts to boys and girls as heroic deeds, to be admired and copied.” 

Also, where does the Bible give orders that Christians may go forth and kill infidels? Certainly violence has been exercised as “God wills it”, but is that a core value of modern day Christianity? Over the thousands of years that the Christian faith has existed, changes and revisions to doctrinal teaching have been made. Popular examples that people use to demonstrate that Christianity is just as bad, if not worse, than Islam are the Crusades, the IRA, and preachers.

CRUSADES

Popular wisdom holds that the Crusades were a conspiracy by powerful people to advance Christian theocracy and enrich the Church. As a result of this conspiracy, the peaceful and innocent Muslims were victimized in a Christian war of aggression.

This theory ignores a few facts, such as the Muslim conquest of Christian lands before the First Crusade.

1) 635 AD – Jihadists (those who partake in Holy War) take Damascus
2) 636 AD – Jihadists take Basrah
3) 637 AD – Jihadists take Antioch
4) 638 AD – Jihadists take Jerusalem
5) 641 AD – Jihadists take Caesarea
6) 643 AD – Jihadists take Armenia
7) 641 -643 – Jihadists take Egypt

647-846 – Jihadists take Tunisia, North Africa, Persia (Iran), Spain, Sicily, and reached the outskirts of Rome. Also, they moved into France (Battle of Tours) and besieged Constantinople.

1004 AD – Fatmid (Egyptian dynasty) Abu Ali al-Mansur al-Hakim begins the demolition of Christian churches. 

1004-1014 – 30,000 Christian churches destroyed, along with other Muslim persecutions of Christians 

1071 AD – Seljuk Turks defeat Byzantines at Mankizert

1076 AD – Seljuk Turks take Syria

1077 AD – Seljuk Turks take Jerusalem

1095 AD – First Crusade launched 

Yeah, it really seems to me that the Christians were the aggressors in this instance. That said, as in all wars, atrocities were committed, but they were committed by both sides. Muslims and Christian soldiers were guilty, particularly when sacking cities. The Crusades are similar to the Bosnia and Serb War of the mid-1990s. Serb Christians ethnically cleansed and Bosnian Muslims (aided by vast numbers of foreign mujahidin) ethnically cleansed as well. In the Crusades, though, Muslims often preferred to live under Christian rule.  

Ibn Jubayr: “Upon leaving Tibnin (near Tyre), we passed through an unbroken skein of farms and villages whose lands were efficiently cultivated. The inhabitants were all Muslims, but they live in comfort with the Franj (Franks / French) — may God preserve them from temptation! Their dwellings belong to them and their property is unmolested.” 

“When these men compare their lot to that of their brothers living in Muslim territory, the latter suffer from the injustice of their co-religionists, whereas the Franj act with equity.” 

Bernard Lewis: “We have seen in our own day the extraordinary spectacle of a pope apologizing to the Muslim lands for the Crusades. I would not wish to defend the behavior of the Crusaders, which was in many respects atrocious. But let us have a little sense of proportion. We are now expected to believe that the Crusades were an unwarranted act of aggression against a peaceful Muslim world. Hardly. The first papal call for a Crusade occurred in 846 CE, when an Arab expedition from Sicily sailed up the Tiber and sacked St. Peter’s in Rome. A synod in France issued an appeal to Christian sovereigns to rally against “the enemies of Christ,” and the pope, Leo IV, offered a heavenly reward to those who died fighting Muslims. A century and half and many battles later, in 1096, the Crusaders actually arrived in the Middle East. The Crusades were a late, limited, and unsuccessful imitation of jihad — an attempt to recover by holy war what had been lost by holy war. It failed, and was not followed up.” 

The Crusades ended, and haven’t been repeated. Jihad has rarely stopped, and still has plenty of adherents and recruits willing to participate.  

IRA and other Irish terrorist organizations: These groups were fighting for political independence from the government of Great Britain. 

REAL IRA: “The RIRA’s ultimate objective is a United Ireland by forcing British withdrawal from Northern Ireland through the use of physical force. The organisation rejects the Mitchell Principles and the Belfast Agreement, comparing the latter to the 1921 Anglo-Irish Treaty which resulted in the partition of Ireland.^[7] The organisation aims to uphold an uncompromising form of Irish republicanism and opposes any political settlement that falls short of Irish unity and independence. Sands-McKevitt, sister of hunger striker Bobby Sands and a founder of the RIRA’s political wing, the 32 County Sovereignty Movement, said in an interview that “Bobby did not die for cross-border bodies with executive powers. He did not die for nationalists to be equal British citizens within the Northern Ireland state”.^[8] The RIRA adopts similar tactics to those used by the Provisional IRA in the 1990s, primarily using bombs in town centres to damage the economic infrastructure of Northern Ireland. The organisation also attempts to kill members of the security forces using landmines, home-made mortars and car bombs, and targets England using incendiary and car bombs to spread terror and disruption.^[5]”  PROVISIONAL IRISH REPUBLICAN ARMY: 

is an Irish Republican, left wing^[3] paramilitary organisation that, until the Belfast Agreement, sought to end Northern Ireland’s status within the United Kingdom and bring about a United Ireland by force of arms and political persuasion. Since its emergence in 1969, its stated aim has been the overthrow of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland and their replacement by a sovereign socialist all-island Irish state.^[4]

ARMY OF GOD: 

Can their actions be justified through Biblical Scripture? Have they taken lives, and if so how many? What are their numbers? True, they have committed terrorist acts (fake anthrax), but to say that they are on the same level as Hizballah (Party of God) or Hamas is illogical. Hizballah and Hamas have killed thousands between them and don’t show any signs of stopping. 

THE COVENANT, THE SWORD, AND THE ARM OF THE LORD: Can their actions be justified through Biblical Scripture? Have they taken lives, and if so how many? What were their numbers? They had an evil ideology, and it wasn’t based in Biblical Scripture. I will also note that they surrendered and disbanded. Jihadist organizations have yet to do the same. 

THE LAMBS OF CHRIST: They claim to be non-violent, but a handful of members possibly connected with violence. One member was convicted of murder. Again, how large is their following? Can the murder and violence be connected to Biblical Scripture? What was the reaction of the larger Christian community? Unequivocal condemnation. 

GOD’S ARMY:It is clearly a terrorist organization that has used violence to achieve its goals. However, I will note the animism is nowhere in the Bible, rendering them not a Christian group so long as animism is part of their goal.  

THE LAMB’S OF CHRIST: One murder tied to it, but that murderer also belonged to God’s Army. Biblical justifications, anyone? Reaction of the Christian community to their actions? Number of followers?  

THE WHITE EAGLES: They were a terrorist group which committed atrocities during the Bosnian War. But, were their actions based on Biblical Scripture? I hate to sound like a broken record, but there is a reason for it, which I will explain. 

GUARDIANS OF THE CEDARS: They are a militia in Lebanon composed of Christians, with morally reprehensible ideals. However, note they fought Muslim militias of Palestine and Lebanon who sought to ethnically cleanse Christians from Lebanese territory. So we have a situation yet again where both sides are in the wrong — much like Bosnia and the Crusades. One of my main points was that these groups all claim to fight for God and Christianity. However, if their actions cannot be based on Biblical Scripture and modern day teachings of the Christian faith, then their claim is hollow. They are Christians who are terrorists and not Christian terrorists. Again, I never claimed that Christians cannot commit evil acts. I am simply pointing out their claims of fighting for God is false. 

PREACHERS 

Many like to point to Pat Robertson as a sign of Christian extremism. Though I disagree (greatly) with Robertson on many issues, he, like Fred Phelps, is no terrorist. He reserves the final judgment to God on his various issues, unlike Islamic clerics.  Fred Phelps is not a terrorist. The worst thing he has done is run his mouth. If people are terrorized by one nut case and his small collection of followers (who happen to be his family) then God help us all. Phelps’ statements are morally reprehensible, but he has not killed anyone. He has not incited his followers to kill the targets of his rhetoric. As far as I am concerned he is just a pain in the ass. To equate with him with Islamists is farcical. 

British Columnist David Thompson (no fundamental Christian) 

“But while red-faced evangelists may say for instance, that gay people are wicked, damned to hellfire, et cetera, I don’t know any internationally renowned Christian leaders who are calling for the imprisonment and killing of gay people. Unlike the supposedly ‘moderate’ Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, who insists that gay men and lesbians should be ‘killed in the worst possible manner’. Not condemned, ‘corrected,’ prayed for, or pitied, or any of the usual nonsense spouted by Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson et al.; but murdered—as brutally as possible.” 

There is also the fact the Islamist imams preach the gloried of Jihad and killing infidels.  

SCRIPTURE 

Here is the biggest issue. In the Qu’ran, jihad is glorified, killing the infidel is smiled upon, and Sha’ria is endorsed. Using this search engine (from a Muslim site) read the hadith and sura that MENACE provided. The passages are explicit and have not been changed. This means that they are still part of Islamic scripture which Islamists use to gain new recruits. And seeing as the Muslim world riots (violently) every time someone criticizes Islam, the revisions which need to occur won’t happen.   

IN CONCLUSION: 

I am not anti-Islamic, but anti-Islamist. An Islamist is someone who believes and/or participates in the following: 

1) Desire for Sha’ria in all lands                                                                                                                                                               2) Desire for a Muslim Caliphate (empire)                                                                                                                                        3) Actively wages violent Jihad                                                                                                                                                             4) Gives monetary support to Jihad                                                                                                                                                    5) Tacitly supports the goals of Jihad                                                                                                                                                  6) Recruits for Jihad

Note that Qu’ran 9:05 is officially known to some as “Verse of the Sword”. For my purposes, all passages supporting Jihad of the Sword will be called such:

“Jihad of the Sword” – Qu’ran 8:12“Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.”  

“Verse of the Sword” – Qu’ran 9:05“So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.”

“Jihad of the Sword” – Qu’ran 9:29“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

“Jihad of the Sword” – Qu’ran 9:30“And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!”

This is just a small sample size of Qu’ranic scriptures that justify, defend, and encourage Jihad. I have linked the site here. If you want to check my work, simply type idolater, fight, and angel into the first search engine and select the proper verse number.

You listed some terrorist groups which claim to be Christian. Here is my list: 

Abu Sayyaf – Philippines

Al-Aqsa Martys’ Brigade – Gaza Strip / West Bank

Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya (The Islamist Group) – Egypt

Al-Qa’ida – globalAnsar al-Islam – Iraq

Armed Islamic Group (GIA) – Algeria

Army of Ansar al-Sunna – Iraq

AZF – FranceEast

Turkestan Islamic Movement – China

Egyptian Islamic Jihad – Egypt

Great Eastern Islamic Raiders’ Front – Turkey

Hamas – Gaza Strip / West Bank

Fatah – Gaza Strip / West Bank

Harkat-ul-Mujahideen al-Alami – Parkistan

Hizballah – Lebanon

Islamic Movement of Central Asia – Central Asia

Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan – Uzbekistan

Jaish-e-Mohammed – Pakistan / Kashmir

Jamaah Islamiyah – Indonesia

Lashkar-e-Toiba – Pakistan / Kashmir

Lashkar i Jhangvi – Pakistan

Moro Islamic Liberation Front – Philippines

Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group – Morocco / Europe

Palestinian Islamic Jihad – Gaza Strip / West Bank

Tawhid and Jihad – Iraq

Al Qa’ida in Iraq – Iraq 

This is just a drop in the bucket. Which list is bigger, and which has taken more lives? Also, note that this is just the US State Department list, with a few additions. I haven’t included the Islamists fighting in Chechyna or the Caucasus region. I also have not included organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood, or Hizb ut-Tahrir who publicly have sworn off violence, but advance the Islamist agenda through funding, recruiting, and political means. I also have not included the janjaweed militias used in Sudan, or Islamist governments like Iran. 

Mike Grant – Samnite Gladiator 

*Yes, I did recycle part of my post from Jihad, but I figure why write the same thing twice?